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About the inner oil pipes, V45 upgrade parts from 1985 model.
Erik Kauppi / Svein Tore (Norway) / Dave Dodge
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( To Erik Kauppi from Svein Tore, www.honda-v4.com ) from Oct 2004.
Hello, I'm Svein Tore from SabMag Scandinavia,
and I found your article about investigating the oil problem
VERY interesting !
I think your article must be very correct about that thin oil passages /
orifice in the upper cam bearing.
Some thoughts and facts from my country :
On my bike, an 1983 V45 Sabre I have modified these
passages after advices from an mechanic here in Norway earlier,
who worked for Honda and with Hondas and V4's for a very long time.
He said that the holes had to be drilled up to 1.5 mm ( .060 ) on early
V45 engines.
I believe the passages was 1.2 mm orginal. (.047-.050)
The second advice from him :...
I have also replaced the inner oil pipes to the 1985 and newer upgrade
part nr 12230-MB0-010 , bought from www.davidsilverspares.co.uk
(Note dec.25 2004, DavidSilver and more suppliers are empty for these upgrade parts now,
and they will not get more pipes )
Larger diameters on the upgrade pipes, outer diameter increases from
4.6 mm to 6.5 mm ( 0.18 to 0.25 ) I'm sure there's more flow out of
these pipes.
That's the picuture of the orginal 1983 V45 Sabre inner oil pipes, (left)
and the upgrade pipe (right) mod 85
For the V65 Sabre there's also a modification part number,
"010" at the end of the number for inner oil pipes.
Don't know the visual difference here.
In the part catalog there's plenty of changes, compare the numbers and models
for the 82-83 V45 and the 84-85 700/V45 Sabre Pdf's
At last I fitted an oilmod from DD/Mark Douglas, did that for 2 years ago.
I have also noticed that the part numbers for the top end outer banjobolts
are different
for the 82 and the 83-84-85 V45/700. (90025-MB0-000 and 90025-MB0-771)
and also the oilpump all v45 Sabre models 82-85 15100-MB0-000 and
"upgrade" 15100-MB0-010
My bike runs very well, and the last time I opened the head covers was in
september 2003,
(when I changed camchain tesioners) This winter I will adjust the valve
clearances, and inspect the cams closely.
Here in Norway Honda replaced a lot of parts until
1990 when the free warranty ended .
Camshafts, rocker arms, upper cam bearings (with larger passages), banjo
bolts ( 1 or 3 I believe, depends on the model/year)
cam chain tensioners and inner oil pipes.
My friends VF1000 Interceptor had these parts replaced on 7000 miles,
and the odometer says 85 000 miles today.
The cams from the 7000 miles replacement are still there, and looking
good. The tensioners has been replaced twice since 7000 miles.
(He bought the bike as the second owner in 1985, just after the repair /
upgrade of the engine. Great isn't it ?
Without oilmod. And with the orginal oil pump. (Must be a good one)
Best regards
Svein Tore
SabMag Scandinavia
www.honda-v4.com
_________________________________
From: "Erik Kauppi"
To: "Svein Tore"
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: About oil mod older Honda V4's
Thanks, Svein !
That's very interesting information.
There has been talk here about replacing the banjo bolts, I knew there
were different numbers but no details.
And there has also been talk about the pipes inside the head being part of
the problem, but I was not aware that Honda had an upgrade part. That's
very interesting.
Thanks again and happy riding !
__________________
----- Original Message -----
From: Svein Tore
To: Erik Kauppi
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: About oil mod older Honda V4's
Hello Erik, and thanks for your answer.
This oiling problem has been interesting for me too over a long time,
and of course there's a solution.
But most of the owners have their own ideas about it,
and for a non-professional there's plenty of info to sort
on internet and advices from mechanics.
At last you can see a pattern, but with variable values
like production tolerances and models.
I purchased my first VF750S new in 1982, and in -86 I bought a used one.
Got the free cam/oilpipe upgrade on that bike in 1988.
That bike are still running well, I have visited the present
owner several times :-)
I do also know where my first bike is, but the bike is not in good shape.
The V45 Sabre that I owns now, was second hand imported from USA in 1997,
and when I found the advertised the total mileage was only 9400,
then I replaced all the problem parts very quickly.
So I'll hope this lady will stay with me for a long time.. ;-)
V65 Sabres are rare in Norway. The numbers of bikes i Norway I will
estimate to around 10 to 15,
all of them imported private from USA and Canada.
In Sweden and Denmark it's even fewer, maybe 5 in each country.
The riding season is over now for most of us,
except for the tough winter riders - there's a few with offroaders or
sidecars..
Happy riding to you too.
Best regards
Svein Tore
SabMag Scandinavia
www.honda-v4.com
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Mail from Svein Tore to Dave Dodge
At 01:04 PM 10/23/04 +0200, you wrote:
Hello Dave, I'm Svein from Norway,
and the webmaster of SabMag Scandinavia
www.honda-v4.com
Your name is also well known here in our inner circles.
and you are promoted well on our websites :
http://www.honda-v4.com/sabmag/bigert/davedodge.html
I have a question of general interest :
We know that Honda changed the problem parts several
times on these engines from 1982 - 86,
and logical there's different conditions here.
Is it possible that something goes wrong
when your oilmod is fitted on engines with those upgrade parts?
I can't find any data around , about before and after oilmod (oilpressure, )
except Eric's website. And what parts which was fitted in the top ends.
Orginal parts or upgrade parts. There must be an change in the oil delivery
to the cams (or the rest of the engine ) when these top end parts has
changed values?
Oil mod or not. Just trying to think logical .... So I'm just asking ;-)
Mark Douglas did'nt know about the "H-pipe" upgrade from the 1985 model
(750 engine) : (Feb 24,2003)
Here's a copy of an conversation with Eric Kauppi
this week, and I'm looking forward to get
your view of this :
Regards Svein Tore
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Svein,
On some newer models the heads were changed to provide outer journal
support, and the H-pipe banjos were made bigger and have a recess to allow
oil to flow around the bolt to the heads. All V-4 Honda's (except the 500,
and 1986 VFR750) share the same basic oil system. All other V45, VF1000,
and V65 will benefit from an oil mod feeding filtered oil to the heads with
2 times pressure and three times volume. My oil systems also boost
lower-end oil pressure 3.5 psi.
Dave Dodge - DRP
drp123@mindspring.com
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